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After Miditzer

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After Miditzer

barryd
Hi all,
As background, I have rebuilt a stripped out Conn 650 3 manual organ with Artisan uMIDI control systems, including all stops and pistons, including some extra ones added to the rails. I have a licenced Miditzer 260SP version running on a dedicated computer, and am happy with the results.

But now I am thinking of expanding the horizon a bit, and wonder what the next logical step is. I am electronics trained, but dumb as a dodo when it comes to software.

I have heard a Hauptwerk system in full flight, using Neil Jenman samples, and would like to have my system sounding something like this. I would like some control over the room ambience sound, including reverb etc. (Have a 1010LT card, powerful amplifiers, good stereo and sub-bass speakers, but not too interested in filling up my music room with extra speakers.) However, the cost is daunting.

Would anyone out there be willing to offer some advice as to which way would be the best to proceed? All responses will be given serious consideration, but I warn....there may be heaps of questions generated by your advice!

Many thanks, in advance,
Barry
Barry,
Gold Coast
Australia
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Re: After Miditzer

Joe Hardy
Administrator
barryd wrote
As background, I have rebuilt a stripped out Conn 650 3 manual organ with Artisan uMIDI control systems, including all stops and pistons, including some extra ones added to the rails. I have a licenced Miditzer 260SP version running on a dedicated computer, and am happy with the results.

But now I am thinking of expanding the horizon a bit, and wonder what the next logical step is. I am electronics trained, but dumb as a dodo when it comes to software.

I have heard a Hauptwerk system in full flight, using Neil Jenman samples, and would like to have my system sounding something like this. I would like some control over the room ambience sound, including reverb etc. (Have a 1010LT card, powerful amplifiers, good stereo and sub-bass speakers, but not too interested in filling up my music room with extra speakers.) However, the cost is daunting.

Would anyone out there be willing to offer some advice as to which way would be the best to proceed? All responses will be given serious consideration, but I warn....there may be heaps of questions generated by your advice!
Barry,

You have, IMHO, made a good start by choosing the uMIDI system for your Conn Console.  You didn't indicate whether or not you plan to replace the Conn stop controls with SAMs (e.g., Syndynes).   If you were to go this route, you would have a full relay and capture combination action.  In this case, you would no longer need to use a virtual relay such as MidiTzer; you could drive the sample player directly.

To your points regarding sample players and libraries, VTPOers are fortunate to have a number of good choices today.   Each user must weigh the pros and "conns" (sorry about that) of each platform.   The choices are not mutually exclussive.  Many of us run two or more VPOs on the same computer.

Hauptwerk is a fabulous VPO package with many excellent sample libraries.   For VTPO, there is the excellent 3/11 (expandable to 3/35) Connoisseur library offered by Neil Jensen.  The Jensen VTPO has a strong and growing user base.  It is especially popular in Oz.  Brett Milan of Milan Digital Audio offers two VTPO libraries, The 2/10 Virginia Theatre, and the Mastwerworks 3/31.   Brett's VTPOs have been on the market a bit longer and the MW 3/31 seems to have a bigger market share.  Both libraries sound excellent.  The Jensen set is all Mono (except Piano), while the Milan set is sampled in stereo.   This may or may not be important to you.  Many users use various audio routing schemes to divide up notes and spread them among multiple speakers.  This is done primarily to mitigate Intermodulation Distortion effects.  Hauptwerk AE is required to use more than two audio channels.  It also provides a rich pallet of voicing controls.  Both HW VTPOs utilize a clever an advanced LFO (low frequency oscillator) system to emulate theatre tremolo.   The original sampled trem is used to derive three waveforms that modulate amplitude and harmonic content to recreate the effect.  Advantages of this are the trems are phase locked (synchronized) and can by turned on and off as notes are playing.  HW can by used either as a Virtual console/relay, or in sequencer mode which is appropriate for playing the samples as the "pipework" from a physical console/relay system.   Another advantage of HW is that it can deliver staggering polyphony (simultaneous notes).   All samples are loaded into RAM.  This helps polyphony, but means that a lot of RAM may be needed.  For VTPO, minimum RAM would be 4 GB.  For large "wet sampled" organs like Milan's CC Metz, 8 to 16 GB is commonly used.   One thing that HW currently lacks is a convolver ("sampled reverb").  Martin Dyde has this feature on his short list, so a future version will likely include a convolver.

Sven Meier's jOrgan is another excellent virtual organ platform.  It is particularly attractive to DIYers who want to design their own virtual organ.  It also runs on Linux, Windows and Mac OSX.   Sample engines that are often used with jOrgan include Fluidsynth, sfz, LinuxSampler and GigaStudio.  The screenshot that adorns the home page for this forum is a jOrgan "dispo" written by Robert Kingdom and further developed by Graham Goode.

Of course you already know about MidiTzer.  Because Jim Henry has offered the 216 for free, it has reportedly been downloaded over 20,000 times.  The actual number of users is significantly less of course.  There are over 200 licensed users for the 260SP.  MidiTzer has what many consider to be the best graphic representation of a TPO console.  It also offers the most powerful and flexible combination action - any combination of stop keys may be mapped to any piston.   MidiTzer is essentially a console/relay program.  Fluidsynth has been coupled to provide sample playback of Soundfonts.  The default library included with MidiTzer was created by Bruce Miles.  This sf2 set delivers very good sound, especially when you consider its very compact footprint of under one megabyte.   Bruce used additive synthesis to emulate pipe sounds.  Two other Soundfont sample sets have been offered freely to the MidiTzer community, contributed by John Tay and Kent Allman.   These sf2 samples are more authentic because they are actual recorded samples of TPO pipes.   One limitation of the Fluidsynth supplied with MidiTzer is that it can only route signals to two audio channels.  The digital reverb embedded with Fluidsynth does not impress many people.

The system that I use is MidiTzer 260SP paired with GigaStudio Orchestra.   The sample library was developed by yours truly (so allow for a certain bias on my part).  You can read about this by downloading the pdf files posted by Steve Margison on Organman.com



 
Joe
VTPO Moderator

Location: Michigan, USA
VPO Platforms: Hauptwerk 3 Advanced Edition, MidiTzer/GSO
Sample Sets: Paramount 310 and 320, MDA Cavaillé-Coll Metz. HVO
PC: Dell XPS 410, e6600 2.4 GHz, 4 GB
Audio: M-Audio 1010LT, 9.1 channels
Recording:  Groove Tube AM51 mics,  Behringher Ultragain Pro Preamp, Sony DAT, Aardvark 24/96, Sound Forge
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Re: After Miditzer

grahamg
Hi Barry,
If cost is a factor, please remember the jOrgan Freedom Special for
Windows project that also uses Joe's freely available GIG fonts with
LinuxSampler. The bug with LinuxSampler that was preventing us from
using it as a VSTi now seems to be fixed (I was testing it this
weekend!), so I will now be able to start work on getting convolution
reverb VST working as well. If you need more info on this project
please go to http://organs.110mb.com/FreedomSpecial_Win32/webframe.html

Hopefully a Beta version of this project will be ready by the end of
May. I can help you set things up too.

GrahamG
Johannesburg, South Africa
Graham Goode
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
VPOs with LinuxSampler, Fluidsynth, SFZ, MyOrgan, NI Kontakt, GigaStudio, and Hauptwerk
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Re: After Miditzer

grahamg
In reply to this post by Joe Hardy
Oh, I should have also mentioned that the LinuxSampler + VST
convolution reverb applicaitons should also work well with the
Miditzer 260SP. I'll be setting up one of these for a friend this
coming weekend.
GrahamG
Graham Goode
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
VPOs with LinuxSampler, Fluidsynth, SFZ, MyOrgan, NI Kontakt, GigaStudio, and Hauptwerk
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Re: After Miditzer

barryd
Hello Joe and GrahamG,
Many thanks for your swift responses, and also the wealth of information contained within. Joe, I have had a look at your page, and am quite interested in your CD. I believe that I will need to load GigaStudio Orchestra or similar. Is this correct, and if so, what is the cost/availability? I have searched the net, and am somewhat confused, as one site mentioned that it has changed companies, and will be re-released with an upgrade version soon. I like the MidiTzer screen, and find it quite detailed and easy to navigate around, but am leaning towards full sampled sounds.

Joe, I have no plans to use SAM's in place of the manual stops, not only the cost involved, but also the difficulty of fitting them to the existing curved rail. Space is a limitation. I purchased about 15 pistons, engraved from the US, and rebuilt the strips between the manuals to fit them. I now have up to 12 piston presets for Solo and Great, and 6 for the Accomp manual, as well as the usual Set, Map etc. In other words, I am quite satisfied with the physical organ, but would like to improve the sounds. I suppose all of us are in the same boat, not entirely happy with what we have, but keep upgrading and 'fiddling' around with it.

Again, many thanks for your responses, and look forward to hearing from you in the future.

Barry
Gold Coast,
Australia

Barry,
Gold Coast
Australia
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Re: After Miditzer

Joe Hardy
Administrator
barryd wrote
Hello Joe and GrahamG,
Many thanks for your swift responses, and also the wealth of information contained within. Joe, I have had a look at your page, and am quite interested in your CD. I believe that I will need to load GigaStudio Orchestra or similar. Is this correct, and if so, what is the cost/availability? I have searched the net, and am somewhat confused, as one site mentioned that it has changed companies, and will be re-released with an upgrade version soon. I like the MidiTzer screen, and find it quite detailed and easy to navigate around, but am leaning towards full sampled sounds.

Joe, I have no plans to use SAM's in place of the manual stops, not only the cost involved, but also the difficulty of fitting them to the existing curved rail. Space is a limitation. I purchased about 15 pistons, engraved from the US, and rebuilt the strips between the manuals to fit them. I now have up to 12 piston presets for Solo and Great, and 6 for the Accomp manual, as well as the usual Set, Map etc. In other words, I am quite satisfied with the physical organ, but would like to improve the sounds. I suppose all of us are in the same boat, not entirely happy with what we have, but keep upgrading and 'fiddling' around with it.
Barry,

You seem to have a well thought out plan for using your Conn console to drive MidiTzer.

GigaStudio was, much to the consternation of the vast community of GS users, dropped a few months ago by Tascam.  They no longer sell GS, but continue to provide registration keys, etc.  Gary Garritan recently announced that he has acquired the rights to GS technology from Tascam.  In coming months, it is expected that Garritan will offer a sample player which fully supports the GS format and the marvelous GigaPulse convolved reverb system.

It is getting more difficult to find GigaStudio Orchestra (GSO), but with a bit of searching, it is possible to find the product for sale.  I came across this site which is offering GSO 3 at $249 USD:

http://www.midi-classics.com/sw/sw36225.htm

GS has two additional versions, Solo and Ensemble; however only Orchestra provides the unlimited polyphony needed for a VTPO.

As Graham mentioned, an alternative to GSO is LinuxSampler, a free open source sample player that is compatible with gig format samples.   LS is evolving and its community of users is growing.   Compared with GSO, it is still rough around the edges and does not support all GSO features such as GigaPulse.  Other convolvers can be used with a bit of effort.  Graham has been hard at work to package LS and a convolver in so that much of the work for loading the samples is automated by an "lscp" script.  LinuxSampler is available in versions for Linux, XP and Mac OSX.  

Probably the most compelling reason to use GSO is its facility to wrap hundreds of voicing parameters in special "project" files (.gsp).   A lot of time has been spent to develop a series of gsp files for varying hardware configurations and GigaPulse settings.  This will make it quite a bit easier to set up GSO as the "pipework" for MidiTzer.

The HVO sample DVDs generously offered by Steve Margison have been sent to thirty users in the two weeks that it has been available.   There are also a number of VTPO users who have downloaded the earlier versions from Kent Allman's website.  

Joe
VTPO Moderator

Location: Michigan, USA
VPO Platforms: Hauptwerk 3 Advanced Edition, MidiTzer/GSO
Sample Sets: Paramount 310 and 320, MDA Cavaillé-Coll Metz. HVO
PC: Dell XPS 410, e6600 2.4 GHz, 4 GB
Audio: M-Audio 1010LT, 9.1 channels
Recording:  Groove Tube AM51 mics,  Behringher Ultragain Pro Preamp, Sony DAT, Aardvark 24/96, Sound Forge
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Re: After Miditzer

engrssc
Along this same line, I would be interested in what it takes to re-register a legal copy of GSO 3. I purchased my copy last June from a legit dealer, and had no problem registering the first time thru Tascam. It runs fine on my original, old computer. But I have upgraded to a new faster/better computer and want to have GSO on this new one. I followed all the steps (from the back section of Joe's instructions) including what is needed with respect to Tascam. I have left numerous recorded messages and have received verification by email, the one that lists all the details and says due to the heavy registration "traffic" that I will be notified within 48 hours. That makes the first attempt over 3 weeks ago. I never was happy with Tascam and now even less. I know they sold out, but their website for GSO is still "working?"
 
 
 
 


Big savings on Dell XPS Laptops and Desktops!
Rgds,
Ed
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Re: After Miditzer

engrssc
Don't know how that link for Dell computers appeared on my last reply prior to my Rgds, Ed. I didn't put it there.

Again,
Rgds,
Ed
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Re: After Miditzer

Joe Hardy
Administrator
engrssc wrote
Don't know how that link for Dell computers appeared on my last reply prior to my Rgds, Ed. I didn't put it there.
Ed,

Did you post via the Nabble web forum or by email?  If the latter, who is the service provider for your email client?

I am sorry to hear that Tascam has been recalcitrant in providing your re-registration key.  I completely agree with your negative view of Tascam.  Their poor service could understandably prompt legitimate users to seek alternative means to maintain the use of their licensed product, for example by googling "gigastudio keygen".  I do not advocate this of course.

I look forward to Gary Garritan's future GS player.  One hopes that he will offer a very attractive "upgrade" path for Tascam GS licensees.

Garritan GS announcement and FAQ

Interesting post on NorthernSounds forum
Joe
VTPO Moderator

Location: Michigan, USA
VPO Platforms: Hauptwerk 3 Advanced Edition, MidiTzer/GSO
Sample Sets: Paramount 310 and 320, MDA Cavaillé-Coll Metz. HVO
PC: Dell XPS 410, e6600 2.4 GHz, 4 GB
Audio: M-Audio 1010LT, 9.1 channels
Recording:  Groove Tube AM51 mics,  Behringher Ultragain Pro Preamp, Sony DAT, Aardvark 24/96, Sound Forge
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Re: After Miditzer

barryd
Hello Joe,
Thanks once again for your response. I have been searching the net for more information on Giga, and it seems that the 'end is nigh' for the GS3 etc since the sale of the company. There is no long term undertaking by the purchaser (Garritan) to supply registration keys or to assist with technical support if a purchaser has a problem. This site:

http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=15

has a lot of information that is relevant to me at this point in time. It may be worthwhile for me to look at Linux in the interim, at least until Giga sorts itself out.

All the best,
Barry

Gold Coast
Australia
Barry,
Gold Coast
Australia
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Re: After Miditzer

Joe Hardy
Administrator
barryd wrote
Hello Joe,
Thanks once again for your response. I have been searching the net for more information on Giga, and it seems that the 'end is nigh' for the GS3 etc since the sale of the company. There is no long term undertaking by the purchaser (Garritan) to supply registration keys or to assist with technical support if a purchaser has a problem. This site:

http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=15

has a lot of information that is relevant to me at this point in time. It may be worthwhile for me to look at Linux in the interim, at least until Giga sorts itself out.
Barry,

One thread  (Re-registration of GSO 3.21) on NorthernSounds that you may be thinking about was posted by toplayer2 - which is me :).  See also the thread here on VTPO "FINALLY - Good News" posted by Ed.
Joe
VTPO Moderator

Location: Michigan, USA
VPO Platforms: Hauptwerk 3 Advanced Edition, MidiTzer/GSO
Sample Sets: Paramount 310 and 320, MDA Cavaillé-Coll Metz. HVO
PC: Dell XPS 410, e6600 2.4 GHz, 4 GB
Audio: M-Audio 1010LT, 9.1 channels
Recording:  Groove Tube AM51 mics,  Behringher Ultragain Pro Preamp, Sony DAT, Aardvark 24/96, Sound Forge
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Re: After Miditzer

barryd
Hi Joe,
Goodness, you do get around (toplayer!). Thanks for the info. Have had a look at the post, and it seems that the re-registration problem has been fixed at last. However, I wouldn't like to be on the phone for 43 minutes at international rates! May have to come out of retirement....again..

I the short term, I am leaning towards installing Linux Sampler, and trying various sound fonts, including your own first. Will let you know of any progress.
Once again, many thanks for your very helpful advice.

Regards,
Barry

Gold Coast
Australia
Barry,
Gold Coast
Australia
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Re: After Miditzer

barryd
Hello Graham / Joe,
Have just ordered the sample set ($20.00 US on PayPal) and have downloaded the Linux Sampler. Look forward to receiving the CD and starting work.

Cheers,
Barry
Barry,
Gold Coast
Australia
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Re: After Miditzer

grahamg
Hi Barry,
Which version of LinuxSampler did you download? I have a more recent
build available that has more functionality and better polyphony
management than the release version from the linuxsampler.org site.
Let me know if you need it :-)
GrahamG
Graham Goode
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
VPOs with LinuxSampler, Fluidsynth, SFZ, MyOrgan, NI Kontakt, GigaStudio, and Hauptwerk
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Re: After Miditzer

RoyR
Hi, Graham,

                     ...Which sets me thinking... Is anything exciting happening on the Puppy Linux/Freedom Special thingy?

     Have fun,

          Roy.

--- On Fri, 1/5/09, grahamg (via Nabble) <[hidden email]> wrote:

From: grahamg (via Nabble) <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: After Miditzer
To: "RoyR" <[hidden email]>
Date: Friday, 1 May, 2009, 7:21 AM

Hi Barry,
Which version of LinuxSampler did you download? I have a more recent
build available that has more functionality and better polyphony
management than the release version from the linuxsampler.org site.
Let me know if you need it :-)
GrahamG



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Re: After Miditzer

grahamg
Hi Roy,
Ubuntu 9.04 is now out, so there will be an Ubuntu jOrgan Freedom
Special being built this month for the new version. If there are no
major hitches it should be ready by the end of May, with some new
convolution reverbs available. This also goes for a new version of the
jOrgan Freedom Special for Windows - using the Jack Audio Connection
Kit to provide multiple channel audio routing and convolution reverb
with Freeverb3's convolver.

On the Puppy side, uPup (or Woof! as some are calling it) is a new
version of Puppy Linux that is in Alpha5 testing at the moment, and is
based on the Ubuntu packages - so when that is released, it will be
easy to pop the Ubuntu jOrgan Freedom Special on it :-)

Now if I could just find a way to get through the day without sleep I
might actually get something done!! I MIDIfied a new set of 32
radiating concave pedals last weekend, and am helping a friend set up
LinuxSampler and Joe's GIG samples with Miditzer 260SP this weekend.
Lots of fun to be had ;-)

GrahamG
Johannesburg, South Africa
Graham Goode
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
VPOs with LinuxSampler, Fluidsynth, SFZ, MyOrgan, NI Kontakt, GigaStudio, and Hauptwerk
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Re: After Miditzer

RoyR
Hi, Graham,

                       What do you do in your spare time? 

      Have fun,

            Roy.

--- On Fri, 1/5/09, grahamg (via Nabble) <[hidden email]> wrote:

From: grahamg (via Nabble) <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: After Miditzer
To: "RoyR" <[hidden email]>
Date: Friday, 1 May, 2009, 8:36 AM

Hi Roy,
Ubuntu 9.04 is now out, so there will be an Ubuntu jOrgan Freedom
Special being built this month for the new version. If there are no
major hitches it should be ready by the end of May, with some new
convolution reverbs available. This also goes for a new version of the
jOrgan Freedom Special for Windows - using the Jack Audio Connection
Kit to provide multiple channel audio routing and convolution reverb
with Freeverb3's convolver.

On the Puppy side, uPup (or Woof! as some are calling it) is a new
version of Puppy Linux that is in Alpha5 testing at the moment, and is
based on the Ubuntu packages - so when that is released, it will be
easy to pop the Ubuntu jOrgan Freedom Special on it :-)

Now if I could just find a way to get through the day without sleep I
might actually get something done!! I MIDIfied a new set of 32
radiating concave pedals last weekend, and am helping a friend set up
LinuxSampler and Joe's GIG samples with Miditzer 260SP this weekend.
Lots of fun to be had ;-)

GrahamG
Johannesburg, South Africa



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Re: After Miditzer

barryd
Hi Grahamg,

Not sure what the version number is, have not had time to load it on the organ computer. Where is the latest version available from? It may be just as easy to get a copy of that.

Cheers,

Barry
Barry,
Gold Coast
Australia
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Re: After Miditzer

Dime Bar
I would be interested in the latest version of linuxsampler if possible.

Thanks
Jon Byrne
Manchester, UK
www.jonbyrne.com
My VTPO Project Page

PC:- P4 3.8ghz, 2GB Ram, 250GB HDD, Win XP Pro, Currently Installed:- Miditzer Style 150, Miditzer Style 160C, Miditzer Style 216, Miditzer Style 260SP (Trial)

Console :- Yamaha HS4 & Studio Logic TK61
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Re: After Miditzer

grahamg
Hi,
My latest CVS build of linuxsampler is available for download at
http://cid-c6dd879f60fadf98.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/LinuxSamplerWindows%20CVS%20Builds?authkey=Js8CkL36thM%24

Please read the Windows How-To at the LinuxSampler home site
(http://www.linuxsampler.org/windows.html) first if you haven't yet,
and read through some of the topics on the linuxsampler forum
(https://bb.linuxsampler.org/).

I'm using LinuxSampler stand alone with Jack and ASIO4ALL drivers, so
if you want more info on how I do it, just let me know.

Have fun!
GrahamG
Graham Goode
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
VPOs with LinuxSampler, Fluidsynth, SFZ, MyOrgan, NI Kontakt, GigaStudio, and Hauptwerk
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